Discussion:
migrating Wikipedia to Creative Commons
Dan Marshall
2004-05-18 22:30:17 UTC
Permalink
This is a draft of a petition I'm planning on putting on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Copyrights Please let me
know what you think.

PREAMBLE

In addition to the Wikipedia, I'm a contributor to LinuxQuestions.org's
wiki. The creators of the LQwiki (as we call it for short) have decided,
like many other wikis, to release our community's work underneath the
Creative Commons Attribution - Share-Alike License. However, since the
Wikipedia's content is released, with very few exceptions, only
underneath the Gnu Free Documentation License (GFDL), we have not been
able to reuse content from the Wikipedia. This has led to massive
replication of effort in several general knowledge articles (such as
Richard M Stallman and a list of common file extensions). As one of the
contributors pointed out in the talk pages of the LQwiki's RMS article,
it would be ironic to violate the GFDL which he had a part in while
creating an article about his contributions to the community. But it is
even more ironic to be forced to replicate effort given the existence of
a body of work that was intended to be shared by its creators. Because
of this situation, I'm petitioning the Wikipedia community to migrate
towards releasing its collective work underneath both the GFDL and
Creative Commons licenses.

REASONS SOME WIKIS DON'T JUST USE THE GFDL

Since migrating towards dual liscencing will not be easy, it seems fair
to list the reasons why some wikis don't just release their work
underneath the GFDL and be done with it.

* GFDL works cannot be released underneath the Creative Commons license.
(Can CC works be licensed under the GFDL though?)

* According to the Free Software Foundation, the creators of the GFDL,
the GFDL is not free in the same sense that the GPL is.

* GFDL works can be released with invariant sections that cannot be
modified or removed by downstream contributors. This can easily lead to
bloat, as downstream contributors add invariant sections of their own.
In addition, GFDL works are required to keep and distribute a change
log. Under the GFDL, unlike the GPL, downstream contributors cannot
remove earlier entries in the change log, which means it keeps growing
instead of being occasionally pruned. Together, this means that a one or
two page work can come with ten or more pages of irrelevant information.
The Wikipedia has no invariant sections, but is required to keep a
change log. This is taken care of internally by the page histories, but
this would place an intolerable burden on other wikis attempting to use
Wikipedia content. Also, there is nothing to prevent downstream
contributors from added invariant sections themselves.

* GPL works cannot be released underneath the GFDL, and GFDL works
cannot be released under the GPL. This means the source code released
under the GPL cannot be quoted (except under fair use laws) in GFDL
works, and GFDL documentation can't be quoted in GPL source code remarks.

* The GFDL has a overly broad anti-DRM restriction. No GFDL work,
including personal copies, are allowed to be placed in a DRM (Digital
Rights Management) format, even if a clean copy is distributed with it.

For additional arguments, please visit these links:

http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.xhtml

http://home.twcny.rr.com/nerode/neroden/fdl.html

http://www.wikitravel.org/en/article/Wikitravel:Why_Wikitravel_isn't_GFDL

HOW TO MIGRATE TO DUAL LISCENCING

Migrating toward dual licensing will be complicated by the fact that the
vast majority of the content of the Wikipedia isn't copyrighted by the
Wikimedia Foundation itself, but rather the individual contributors.
These contributors agreed to release their work under the GFDL, but not
the Creative Commons license. In order for their work to be released
under the Creative Commons, their permission must be obtained. In order
to do this I propose:

1. That on D-Day of the migration, the submission message be changed to
something along these lines: "I agree to release my work under both the
GFDL and Creative Commons Attribution - Share-Alike licenses."

2. That the Wikimedia Foundation agree to release Wikipedia content that
it provided underneath the Creative Commons license.

3. That after D-Day, registered users be presented with the following
message ( or something similar) upon login: "I agree to release my
previously contributed work underneath the Creative Commons Attribution
- Share-Alike license. Y/N". If the user click "No", then they should be
provided with a link in case they change their mind. (Alternatively, the
message could continue to appear every login until the user agrees, but
that would be a little too evil.)

While these measures will "liberate" much of the content of the
Wikipedia, there will still be a residue of "unliberated" content. This
would include content submitted by anonymous users, registered users who
have not logged in since D-Day, and registered users who refused
permission for their work to be released under the Creative Commons.
Eventually, this content will be replaced by dual-licensed submissions.
Until then, however, it will also be necessary to:

4. Track the licensing status of articles, and based on that status,
have one of the following copyright notices:

a) This article is licensed under the GFDL.

b) This article is licensed under the GFDL. In addition, some portions
of this article are available under the Creative Commons Attribution -
Share-Alike license.

c) The current version of this article is licensed under both the GFDL,
and the Creative Commons Attribution - Share-Alike license.

CONCLUSION

Given the complex nature of the proposed migration, I doubt that it will
be done without much debate and support from the Wikipedia community. If
you support this proposal, please sign it with four tildes. This wiki
markup will be interpreted as a link to you user page and a time stamp.
If you on the whole agree with the proposal, but have some reservations
about it, please list a link to a page describing your reservations and
place your signature under the link. Please do the same if you disagree
with the proposal. Until this proposal is carried out, I encourage you
to submit work while logged in so that it can be migrated with minimal
effort.

SIGNATURES

AUTHOR

crazyeddie

THE UNDERSIGNED AGREE WITH THIS PROPOSAL

signature1

signature2

signature3

THE UNDERSIGNED AGREE WITH THIS PROPOSAL, BUT WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT

(link 1)

signature1

signature2

signature3

(link 2)

THE UNDERSIGNED DISAGREE WITH THIS PROPOSAL, AND WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT

(link 1)

signature1

(link 2)

signature1
Mikhail Capone
2004-05-19 07:27:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Marshall
This is a draft of a petition I'm planning on putting on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Copyrights Please let me
know what you think.
PREAMBLE
In addition to the Wikipedia, I'm a contributor to LinuxQuestions.org's
wiki. The creators of the LQwiki (as we call it for short) have decided,
like many other wikis, to release our community's work underneath the
Creative Commons Attribution - Share-Alike License. However, since the
Wikipedia's content is released, with very few exceptions, only
underneath the Gnu Free Documentation License (GFDL), we have not been
able to reuse content from the Wikipedia. This has led to massive
replication of effort in several general knowledge articles (such as
Richard M Stallman and a list of common file extensions). As one of the
contributors pointed out in the talk pages of the LQwiki's RMS article,
it would be ironic to violate the GFDL which he had a part in while
creating an article about his contributions to the community. But it is
even more ironic to be forced to replicate effort given the existence of
a body of work that was intended to be shared by its creators. Because
of this situation, I'm petitioning the Wikipedia community to migrate
towards releasing its collective work underneath both the GFDL and
Creative Commons licenses.
[snip]

I think it's a good idea, but try to appeal more directly to the
Wikipedia community.

Start with a brief paragraph that tells them exactly what are the
advantages of change and the disadvantages of the status-quo.

Because with that paragraph, their first reaction will be: "So
wikipedia, the most popular wiki on the internet, should change license
because some wiki smaller than our section on tropical fruits can't
reuse our material?"

Try to target it more at wikipedians than LQwikians, that's my suggestion.

Oh, and brievety is good. You can have more details, but there should be
a good summary somewhere easy to find it you want many signatures.
People just don't read long things if they are not convinced from the
start that it's worth it.
--
Mikhail / http://MikeCapone.blogspot.com
Jeremy
2004-05-19 20:17:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mikhail Capone
I think it's a good idea, but try to appeal more directly to the
Wikipedia community.
Start with a brief paragraph that tells them exactly what are the
advantages of change and the disadvantages of the status-quo.
Because with that paragraph, their first reaction will be: "So
wikipedia, the most popular wiki on the internet, should change license
because some wiki smaller than our section on tropical fruits can't
reuse our material?"
I agree with this. FWIW, one of the main reasons I didn't go with
the GFDL was that its requirement to distribute the actual license meant
that a 2 page article would need to be accompanied by 12 pages of
legalese. Also FWIW, we have been looking into the ability to allow both
GFDL and CC content at the LQ wiki, but it's not been an easy task.

--jeremy
Dan Marshall
2004-05-19 20:04:17 UTC
Permalink
Since I haven't heard any screams of indignation, I'll keep up with
this. I've posted the draft for editing on my wikipedia user page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crazyeddie

If you could, swing by and edit. I'll also post a link from my LQwiki
user page. I'll leave the draft up until after July 1, after that I'll
go ahead and post the final form.

As for making the preamble more wikipedia centric, the problem is I
can't think of too many ways the wikipedia benefits. The only way I can
think of is backporting - Another wiki could improve on an article, and
then edit the changes back into the orginal article. The main reason for
the wikipedia to get away from gfdl is because it prevents the
contributors works from being used in the way they want. If CC works
can be released under the GFDL this could happen now (except that the
other wikis can't use the orginal article...) Can CC works be put under
the GFDL?

I would also like to keep the petition simple, but I think the subject
is a bit complex, and I would like to cover all the bases.

Basically, I'm going to go wikify it, and then let the community work it
over a bit.
Mikhail Capone
2004-05-19 20:23:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Marshall
Basically, I'm going to go wikify it, and then let the community work it
over a bit.
Before you do too much, have you searched the archives of the mailing
lists, the wiki and the meta-wiki for discussions on CC licenses? Or if
you can't find anything, ask someone who should know (Brion?).

For some reason I'm guessing that this has already been discussed in the
past.
--
Mikhail / http://MikeCapone.blogspot.com
Dan Marshall
2004-05-20 19:33:24 UTC
Permalink
Nope, I haven't. I will though. So far, I've left a note on the talk
page of one of the 12 Buerucrats asking him to check out the petition to
see if I was doing anything agianst the policy. Basically, I'm hoping
somebody will tell me to stop if I'm doing something stupid before I
make a *complete* ass of myself. However, I'm willing to take one for
the team if that's what it takes. Also, I'm planning on posting
something on this on the Village Pump. I probably should have done that
first before firing what might be the first ICBM in a flame war. The
things you think of 3 hours after you've commited yourself....
Dan Marshall
2004-05-20 21:42:34 UTC
Permalink
I did some looking and found this:

http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/GFDL_FAQ

Basically, it says that the Wikipedia began before the CC was around,
and since it's the individual contributors who hold copyright, the
Wikimedia Foundation can't unilateraly release content underneath the
CC. Except for the first bit, I've already noted this in the petition,
and I think the proposed solution will work around the second bit.

I also found this:

http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guide_to_the_CC_dual-license

This is a way for individuals to dual license their Wikipedia
contributions. If you're a registered Wikipedian please do this! I'm
basically proposing doing this on a mass scale.
Jeremy
2004-07-28 02:34:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Marshall
http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guide_to_the_CC_dual-license
Since this topic has recently come up again... The above page says
"And Wikipedia is working with the en:Free Software Foundation to try to
make the GFDL compatible with other copyleft content licenses." Does
anyone know the status on this? While we are considering adding a dual
license type system to the LQ Wiki, having the licenses be compatible
would *greatly* simplify things.

--jeremy

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